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Cathleen

In context of the last post, could this - should this, is this not be happening now, even as we have our "typical" Sunday gatherings? Is this not what we as disciples being discipled should/have been encouraged, enabled and equipped to be doing?

I wonder why this basic foundation of our faith, has become this supposed new way of doing church (incarnational fellowships or incarnational communities), when it has always been Jesus' call to a way of being for all who would follow him.

I would be interested in understanding the when, and why of the transition/break down, from what we we are called to be (as a church/body of believers) and what we are, from the way it was (was it?) to the way it is.

I think if as individuals we are living this out than Christianity will always be relevant regardless of how the gathering of the body of believers is packaged.

Cathleen

I guess as someone who did not grow up in the Christian sphere, my real question is when did Christianity start becoming irrelevant and more importantly why? Was it when it became institutionalized? Cause I think the institutional church at one point was very relevant to the community around it, whilst staying true to their faith.

Dan

You are right that Christian communities, even as institutions, were significant 'lights' in their contexts. But as Western society over the past 50 (some would say 100) or more years has transitioned to a different kind of world, many churches have retreated from that change, into fortresses of safety from 'the evil world' rather than as places of spiritual realignment for our everyday life in the world. I hope you are going to get to hear Phyllis Tickle and David Fitch on Friday. Phyllis' book The Great Emergence is brilliant and very readable, about this change or 'shake-down' that is going on in society as a whole.

Cathleen

I am indeed going to presentations, looking forward to it :D

I can understand and see the transition that has occurred but why? I agree that many churches have retreated into fortresses of safety from 'the evil world'. Who/What is responsible for this? It is certainly not biblical.

Regardless of how the world around us changes or "shakes-down" our call to live & love like Christ and the churches call to make disciples has not changed.

I am not arguing against how we do it, be it through incarnational fellowships or institutional church. I just think that unless the root of the problem is addressed that the issues will not be resolved by repackaging church.

I don't claim to know what the problem is but I would suggest that it is in part a lack of discipleship that takes concrete shape, in that unusual group of friends who gather to sing and pray and care for their neighbourhood, living such good lives among their neighbours, that they cannot find fault; and that they may even see those good deeds “and glorify God”

Even as I write this, a thought occurs to me that maybe what we need to repackage, or refocus on is how we disciple indiviudals in the current context of the societal changes we have/are experiencing.

Dan

Oh yes, discipleship is the key piece. over the past 3 years this is the experiment we have been working on in our house fellowship; what does it mean to be and live as a disciple, in community. (I think one of our problems has been making it about 'the individual' and their own 'personal' walk with God. Jesus called his followers into a 'group', we are born into the 'body' the 'family' the 'household' of God.) we have been field-testing a 'curriculum' for developing Jesus-followers, as a learning, journeying community.

Cathleen

Wish there was a "like" button!

I would be most interested in learning more from you, discussing your curriculum further, as this is one of my passions and I have begun working through developing a discipleship curriculum and community as well for our church.

Can't complain without offering solutions ;D

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